What is thematic investing and why does Kurt Read swear by it?
What makes a good investment opportunity?
And did Kurt actually herd sheep for Rupert Murdoch?
In this episode of NIC Chats, Kurt Read, managing director of RSF Partners and NIC board chair, talks with Beth Mace about RSF’s thematic approach and requirements for investing and why this is the time for radical transparency in the senior housing industry. Later, they address how the labor shortage in senior housing has created growth opportunities for young professionals.
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We want to hear from you! Let us know what you think of our podcast by giving us a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts or wherever you listen.
What is thematic investing and why does Kurt Read swear by it?
What makes a good investment opportunity?
And did Kurt actually herd sheep for Rupert Murdoch?
In this episode of NIC Chats, Kurt Read, managing director of RSF Partners and NIC board chair, talks with Beth Mace about RSF’s thematic approach and requirements for investing and why this is the time for radical transparency in the senior housing industry. Later, they address how the labor shortage in senior housing has created growth opportunities for young professionals.
Want to join the conversation? Follow NIC on LinkedIn.
We want to hear from you! Let us know what you think of our podcast by giving us a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts or wherever you listen.
Hello and welcome to the Nick Chats podcast. My name is Beth Mace and I am Nick's chief Economist. Thank you for joining us. The focus of the Nick Chats podcast is talking to interesting people that have ideas that I think you'd like to hear about. As you listen today, I hope that you'll find some humor, insights, inspiration, and hopefully what I call an aha moment when something pithy or insightful is said, and the light bulb may go off for you. Lemme tell you a bit about the structure of today's event. First, I will tell you three statements about my guest, two of which will be true throughout the podcast. You'll learn which is true and which is false. Second, there are three standard questions with Aiden, each podcast for each speaker. The first is, what's the largest challenge facing our industry? Followed by a question about one thing we can do to grow talent in our industry. And third, what is one innovative way or idea to strengthen our industry now as they say I went to show? So I'm delighted that our Nick Chats podcast discussion today is with Kurt Reed. Kurt is the founder, managing director and partner at RSF Partners, and he also serves as the chairman of Nick's board. Kurt, thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Beth. Good to talk to you as always,
Speaker 1:<laugh>. So, as mentioned, I have three statements about Kurt. Two of these are true and one is not, and you'll have to stay for the entire podcast to learn about these. So one statement is that Kurt herded sheep for Rupert Murk. One is that he once bought eight cases of wine for the Grateful Dead, and one is that he went bungee jumping with his wife on his honeymoon. So now stay tuned. So Kurt, tell us about R S F partners and your role at R S F.
Speaker 2:So, Beth, r s F's a pr, a real estate private equity fund business. We've been around for 25 years now. It's amazing how time flies. Um, we usually have funds that are between 300 and 400 million, and we have a very broad mandate. Um, so we can invest in any real estate asset class. Um, we do, uh, I would characterize us though, as thematic investors, and one of the themes that we've invested in consistently over that 25 year period is senior living and care.
Speaker 1:So what do you or your team look for when you invest in senior housing or in skilled nursing, that's your area of focus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's interesting. What we do is we start with the operator and we spend a lot of time with them trying to understand their goals and objectives. So I would say we are product type neutral and we focus on those operators and try and understand what their short, medium, and long-term goals are. And then we work backwards from there. And we partner and invest with folks that have usually a demonstrated track record of success in a relatively narrow business plan. So imagine somebody who is great at memory care in the Northwest, or is, uh, a skilled nursing developer in a C O N state, um, or a diversified platform in senior living that focuses on turning around poorly performing properties. All of those would be examples of business plans that we would work with the operator and design a capital program that would fit their needs.
Speaker 1:So you tend to be more programmatic investors. So you, you, when you find a partner you send tend to stay with them for a period of time, is that right? Yeah,
Speaker 2:I mean, my partner, Chris Mahol, who is the, uh, he actually Moonlight is the real estate finance professor at the Graduate School of Business School. Um, he, both of us, uh, believe in having a few partners that we can be meaningful with each other. So we really are gonna focus on only a couple of partners during the life of one of our funds.
Speaker 1:So it's about relationships.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean, it starts with people, one of your notes at the beginning of this podcast was how do we develop talent? Um, and if you don't invest in, you know, companies and platforms that can develop, curate, attract, retain talent, uh, you can't be successful in any operating business that uses real estate.
Speaker 1:And if I was someone new who was looking to be your partner, how, how, how does a new person coming along get to be a partner of rsf?
Speaker 2:You mean new to the business completely or new to new
Speaker 1:To you? Uh,
Speaker 2:Us New to you. How new to us. Um, tell me about your business plan. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, what's your goals? What, why do you have those as your goals? Uh, what's your track record? In other words? Okay, my goal is to do X or Y or Z and here's what I've done to prove that I'm capable of it, but what I need is a capital partner that can help me get to that next level. I don't have the financial resources to get there on my own, and I need someone that can help me. And you know, what we do is we design programs and figure out partners, uh, how to partner with one another. We may end up doing financing for a partner. We may not, we may end up helping them with development. We may not, we may just be passive<laugh> with certain people. So it depends on the needs and skills.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, um, I think you view yourself sometimes as an opportunistic investor as well in more broadly commercial real estate. So what makes a good opportunity in that category of investment?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're the, we're thematic in that and we're value oriented in that. So, you know, one thing that's been difficult for us is we had a huge expansion in, uh, increase in values from, let's call it 2010 to 2020 in commercial real estate. So we only picked out one material theme in that time period, and that was, uh, close in kind of what I would call ugly small distribution buildings in major cities in Europe, particularly London and Paris. So that's a non-institutional play because ins institutions wanna invest in huge class A assets. And we thought the right play in industrial was the last mile distribution play. Yeah. Um, and you know, London and Paris, if you've ever been there, it terrible to drive around, they're desperately needing affordable housing. So they're, they're tearing down industrial and building residential. So that's an example of a thematic or opportunistic play in the commercial real estate space. Um, when, when capital markets get disrupted and the real estate market turns upside down, so whether that's oh eight or, you know, in the, in the healthcare real estate in 99, or if you go way back to the, you know, savings loan crisis in 91, we're also a deep value investor in commercial real estate. And we'll buy, uh, commercial real estate debt and assets at a discount, turn it around, sell it
Speaker 1:All right. So that just in time, uh, kind of theme that we have in, in industrial especially good right now in the days of Amazon quick deliveries when people expect their services instantly.
Speaker 2:Exactly. It's
Speaker 1:I dream of something. It's at my door in a minute,
Speaker 2:<laugh>. There you go. Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1:All right. So what are the some of the things that get you most excited as you look into the future for R S F?
Speaker 2:Oh, I think we have an amazing, uh, platform in the senior living space. Um, we have a team that's led by Sebastian Brown, Emma Rosen, Richard White. These are folks that have a long track record of, you know, managing, investing, developing, um, investing in the senior living business. Um, and we have a great track record. So, you know, if if you're not, uh, producing very good net returns for your investors, you don't get to be in business for 25 years. So I think at this point in time where we see accelerating demand growth, uh, we see capital markets being disrupted, uh, we see the long-term view of senior living as very positive. I'm very excited about the team and the fact that we have capital and expertise at this pivotal time for our industry.
Speaker 1:So who are your investors?
Speaker 2:So we have, um, two broad groups of investors. We have high net worth individuals, and we have family offices or multi-family offices. Um, my prior private equity business, uh, had institutions like state pension funds. Um, they come with a lot of, uh, what I'll call reporting baggage.
Speaker 1:They do. They do. And,
Speaker 2:And we decided that that was not the right fit for the type of investing that we wanted to do. Scale also is important for those folks, and we wanted to keep our funds in the 300 million to 400 million range, and that suits those types of investors way better than the large institutional investors.
Speaker 1:That makes sense. Okay. Let's switch a little bit. So you've been the chair of Nick's board for, uh, well, you've been involved with Nick for many years. You've been on the executive committee for many years, uh, and now you've been the chair for the last several years. So, um, thank you<laugh> on behalf of Nick. Thank you for your leadership and your insights and your guidance and your patience. Um, so this's a pretty long time commitment you've given to Nick. So why have you given so much time to this fairly small not-for-profit 5 0 1[inaudible][inaudible] organization?
Speaker 2:So the easiest answer is so I get to work with you.
Speaker 1:Oh,<laugh> plus.
Speaker 2:So besides the ability, the opportunity to work with Beth mm-hmm.<affirmative> and people like Bob Kramer and El Ray Bra, um, you know, I've had a very successful career investing in the senior living in care space, and I believe it's my responsibility and, um, you know, role to give back. And I am passionate about Nick's core mission and bringing, you know, operators and capital together to provide more options, um, you know, for the frail elderly in the country. So it aligns with my need to give back and want to give back. And professionally, I think it's uniquely positioned to help our industry and help our nation's elders in the future.
Speaker 1:Okay. So what have been some of the initiatives that you're most proud of under your leadership?
Speaker 2:Um, well, I hesitate to use the word proud. Let me say I was excited. Okay. Um, to really, to broaden Nick's mandate, broaden the tent, bring in different viewpoints in response to what I think of as external or exogenous factors that are, that were really, you know, if you go back I guess five to seven years, Beth, we, we identified that there's external factors like the changing healthcare system, technology, um, the way the capital markets were evolving. Yeah. There were a lot of external factors that labor markets, clear labor market. I mean, just so many things happening. It was clear that our industry needed to go from, if you, if the nineties were sort of the first step, and then the two thousands were the second step, we needed to go to Nick 3.0. And so leading the board, which is an amazing group of highly competent, very busy, engaged, passionate volunteers, in an effort to think about those forces and put in place a new strategic plan that would bring more people to our industry, more different board members. We had independent board members, we added, we brought more people from different, you know, whether it's from the ancillary businesses or the insurance business or other healthcare business, we brought more people to the table to understand what we're doing. And, you know, we've got 3 million seniors that we're serving roughly. And so, uh, that is probably what I'm most excited about, is that plan that we collectively put in place. We approved it last year. And, uh, that, and the fact that we actually have resources or an endowment, I guess, financial resources. So we're now in the position, um, you know, to act on the changes and to help Nick get to, you know, Nick 3.0, which I'm super excited about.
Speaker 1:So, as a little plug for, uh, recruiting additional volunteers, what's the benefit of being a volunteer for, for Nick?
Speaker 2:Oh, man, for me, it's obvious you get to engage intellectually, professionally, uh, with the most passionate, successful, excited, um, you know, entrepreneurs, financiers, managers in our industry. I mean, that, just that alone, being able to be on calls, sit in meetings with, engage with debate, and then help all of that for a positive benefit for our industry. So you're feeling good, you're doing good. You're, you're learning, you're challenging. I mean, to me, that as a, any volunteer, anybody thinking that they'd like to spend time volunteering, I think you get way more out of that than you, than you know, you would think going in. Uh, it's fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. I was a volunteer for many years for Nick<laugh>, and I'm on staff, so Yeah. I'm a, I'm a nick believer, as they say in the mission of the organization. So let's go back to your true and false statements. So is it true or false that you once, uh,<laugh>, that you once bought eight cases of wide for the Grateful Dead, could that possibly be true?
Speaker 2:Could that possibly be true in the interview is Yes, that is true. So I had a music sound light and hospitality business in the early eighties. And when you have a hospitality business for the music industry, what you do is you sign a contract for people on tour and you provide food, in this case, beverages, adult beverages, and you know, other things for, you know, the musicians when they're on tour. And the rider attached to the contract for the Grateful Dead specified, eight very specific cases of wine that needed to be in their dressing room when they arrived before their show. And
Speaker 1:It cases of a lot of wine,
Speaker 2:I'm telling you,<laugh>. Okay. I had an old cut list, Supreme Pizza,
Speaker 1:I had that car too,
Speaker 2:P os Okay. And I had to, they didn't ha I was in upstate New York doing this, and I couldn't find like half the wine list in upstate New York mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So I had to drive down to the city, fill my car up with eight cases of wine, and hightail it back up to upstate New York to make it in time. So the dressing room was filled with their, you know, whatever, Bojo, leis, supremo. Anyway, it was, uh, it was an interesting, uh, little assignment.
Speaker 1:Well, at least it wasn't cold duck wine, so<laugh>, there
Speaker 2:You go. No, no, they were, these were very expensive bottles of
Speaker 1:Wine. Uh, no doubt. Wow. That's all right. So we'll talk about your other, um, comments in a little bit. So let's talk about you for a little bit. Tell us about your career path. Obviously you started by delivering wine to the Grateful Dead, so that's a good start, but I think he did more than that. And, and then after you tell us a little bit about your career path. How did you choose or why did you choose to put your energies into this industry? Um, and what are the rewards and what surprised you?
Speaker 2:So I started out as an engineer and a programmer, coder, that's what you call'em today. Right. And, uh, when I got outta school, uh, I didn't wanna be, I decided I, I didn't wanna sit in a basement write code all day. I wanted to go into business. And I started out as a banker. And, uh, during my training period as a banker in, uh, right above the Harvard coop, for those of you who are now Harvard Square, um, my grandfather called me up and he said, Kurt, I know you're interested in real estate. Um, you know, I'm worried about my health. Uh, your grandmother and I are looking at a retirement facility, um, outside of Boston, in, uh, in Needham, Massachusetts. I want you to come with me and I want you to listen to the pitch, and I want your thoughts. And he got me totally hooked. I mean, I went to, this was a not-for-profit group, and, you know, there was a pictures and there was stories, and there was Woods<laugh>. And so listening to this pitch about how you plan for aging, frailty, and ultimately death in a way that might suit your specific needs as a family was fascinating. I I, as soon as I went through that with him, and we spent a ton of time together doing it, I was like, this is really interesting. Um, so as a finance guy, um, you know, I went into private equity after, uh, learning to be a lender, um, not doing lending, but learning to be a lender. And I went into private equity business. And what happened was the savings and loan crisis occurred just as I was a young person. And the opportunities quickly developed in real estate related operating businesses. So that was healthcare and hospitality, all the big money, the guys and women from New York were buying, you know, office buildings and apartments and stuff. We did a little bit of that, but the huge opportunity was to invest in these operating businesses, particularly hospitality and senior living. And so that's how I, um, accelerated my interest in this, that my grandfather had kin.
Speaker 1:Wow. That's, I don't think I knew that story. That's
Speaker 2:Really interesting. So that, that company, the Hamstead Group, which was a, um, private equity real back then, there wasn't anything called private equity. You were either a buyout fund or you were an opportunity fund. So we were a real estate opportunity fund, and, you know, we bought a public company called the Forum Group that had 26 CRCs across the country and partnership with Apollo. Um, you know, we also backed a number of local operators who were developing products. Um, you know, we rolled that whole company up and sold it to Marriott in 97. Oh. Which was one of the most difficult and disappointing days of my career. I mean, financially was great, but we had a fabulous company. And selling to Marriott was, I was full of mixed emotions, and yeah, I bet they did. They did a very bad job running that company. So that was a disappointment. You know, we also invested in Omega, um, kept it public mm-hmm.<affirmative>, but we owned two thirds of the common stock of Omega because in 99, roughly 75% of their properties were run by bankrupt operators, and they were involved in their debt and they had 20, 75 million of junk bonds coming due. So we recapitalized that company. So I had the opportunity earlier on in my career to be a director investor, you know, finance guy, um, in both private companies and public companies in our space. And I just learned a ton about how to grow businesses, how to recapitalize them, the benefits and the, and, and really frankly, the, the difficulties of being in our business and in the public markets. So, um, that was a great start. And then in the late nineties, um, and in early two thousands, I joined R S F first as an operating partner, cuz, uh, believe it or not, I've been a developer and an operator as well as an investor. Um, but I was an operating partner and then, uh, joined the firm as a, as partner.
Speaker 1:So, um, let's go back to your grandparents there. So did they move into that property and,
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:And how's the Yeah, it's called How that work
Speaker 2:Out? North Hill, so I Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:North
Speaker 2:Hill. Yeah, north Hill. Yeah, sure. Okay. So yeah, they were one of the first, you know, in a C C R C. Right. You get to be a founder's club club member or whatever. Yeah. My grandfather thought that was cool. I can be a founder club member. So yeah, they, they spent the rest of their lives there.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice. All right. So thus far in your career, you, we've talked a little about things that have happened to you along the way and experiences. If you were talking to younger adults that might be listening to this podcast today, what advice would you give them?
Speaker 2:Um, think about what your goals and objectives are. Be frank with yourself, you know, what is it that you want to try and accomplish? And then work backwards from there. And the senior living business offers so many different opportunities. If you're interested in finance, know, okay. There's all sorts of, it's a very capital intensive real estate related business, so you're interested in finance, you got an opportunity to be a lender. If you're interested in being an investor, you have an opportunity to work for a company like R S F or Harrison Street or Peru or whatever. Um, if you're interested in analysis, but you really wanna get closer to the residents, there's a real need for folks that have an analytical bent in our operating, uh, environment. If you wanna be closest to the residents and you wanna be, um, what I think of, you know, the people that foremost think about the care and need of, you know, the frail elderly, then absolutely. Operators need great talent at all different levels. Doesn't matter whether you wanna be at the property or corporate or whatever. We have a great need for that. And because we have such a high need, that means there's enormous opportunity for growth and professional development. So I, you know, the labor part and attracting, you know, very talented young people is a key goal and objective myself, Nick, and should be for everybody in our industry.
Speaker 1:He agree. So I know you have had a lot of experience in the hotel industry, so if you're looking at a young person and they're in the hospitality school, or trying to think, you know, should I go to the hotel area, um, or senior housing, how would you advise them?
Speaker 2:That's a good question.<laugh>,<laugh>, I would say look around, look around the room, and of the 10 people that are your peers that are interested in, you know, hospitality, you're gonna be the only one interested in senior living. So who has less competition and who has more opportunity? You do.
Speaker 1:Yep. Great. That's what I was hoping you were gonna say.
Speaker 2:<laugh>.
Speaker 1:<laugh>. All right. So let's talk now a little bit more about the, the industry. And, you know, you and I have talked a lot about the challenges in the industry and the last few years, labor shortages, covid 19 pandemic inflation, now rising interest rates. What impact are they having on our industry and how is that changing your view, if at all, on where we are today and where the industry's heading?
Speaker 2:So it's not changed my view at all, Beth, and I think I've felt like a lone voice in the woods, uh, during what I'll call the boom times from 2010 to February of 2020. And that is our industry suffers from a lack of investment and capital in the operating side of the business. Yeah. We have done an amazing job of attracting real estate capital at ever lower cap rates to our industry. So I give us an a plus from taking us from a nothing asset class to something that, you know, all, almost all institutional investors might consider at one point or the other. But the operating business, the result of that is the operators, um, have a gut real estate capital to grow their businesses. And a lot of times real estate investors aren't perfectly a adapted to, nor are their goals and objectives aligned with investing in talent growth, it whatever you need to be successful at your business longer term. And that, I think, goes to your three questions, like, what's the biggest problem? What's is labor? How do we attract labor? I mean, they all, I think they all run through this theme. And I, you know, will continue to beat the drum here. That the way to maximize customer satisfaction, great care and great financial returns, is to think about our business as an enterprise that cares for the frail elderly inside of real estate. There's all sorts of things going on on the healthcare side that don't even run through our p and l as, um, Eric Morton, Carolyn Pearson, and you, uh, highlighted in that, uh, research report, you know, about roughly 60 to 65% of the, you know, total out-of-pocket costs that someone in assisted living in the US spend, you know, are on, that's only run through our p and l. There's 35% that, you know, we don't even engage with very well today. So, you know, I think there's an enormous opportunity, um, to bring all these threads together by thinking about the business differently than it has been over the last, you know, 12 years.
Speaker 1:So let's go a little deeper on that. And that's towards the integration of healthcare into senior housing. Um, and we've, we, this has been a theme for Nick for several years. You've helped guide that. So what are some ways that you're thinking about this right now in 2023 post covid in terms of the integration of healthcare into the senior housing industry?
Speaker 2:So, I'm gonna shy away from guessing or prognosticating who are gonna be, what business plans are gonna be the winners and losers here. But I would say, um, a couple of broad topics. One is every operator needs to figure out their engagement strategy, uh, with the broader healthcare ecosystem. And it can be, I'm just gonna provide a high quality real estate product and that's it. And I'm not gonna, you know, have any relationship with them. But they need to be able to understand and engaged with it by understanding the way their residents are affected by it, the way they use it, the way it affects their wallet,<laugh> their budget. Uh, those are desperate needs. When I talked to a lot of folks, you know, they're like, gosh, I wish there were a one-stop shop for my residents to go to that would say, here are the financial implications. Here's how Medicare works. Here's how Medicaid works. Here's how your insurance works. Here's, you know, how you might think about budgeting. You know, do you have a, do you have a, an attorney that you're doing estate planning with? You know, I mean, there are so many complicated financial and healthcare decisions that families and seniors need to understand. And, you know, it's all ad hoc, it's all put on the residents, their families. Um, that just makes it really difficult for people to consider accepting and using our product because we don't help'em and we don't put our, our product in context for the overall plan of how you age and how you die.
Speaker 1:Agreed. Well, we're talking like a concierge as well as, uh, someone who's, who's helping you sort of navigate the system and figuring out what's best for you as an individual on the adult daughter right now.
Speaker 2:Yes. Right. Yeah. So that is a default option, which doesn't seem to be working very well to me. Yep. So I think, I don't know what the right idea is, Beth, but what Nick's job is to point out to capital providers and technologists and whoever, right. Entrepreneurs, there's this massive need out there, massive opportunity, and somebody is gonna figure out which is the right business strategy to take advantage of that. And so that's what's exciting to me, is bringing those entrepreneurs and opportunities together in our space.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, um, let me ask, we've touched upon some of this. When I'm thinking about ways to grow talent in our industry, the la largest challenge facing our industry and innovative ideas of how to strengthen the industry, what would be some of your thoughts on, on that? We've touched upon some of those, but anything else that sort of sticks out? So, growing talent.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Growing. I, I'm gonna go back to another, you know, know old, so of mine, which is data and transparency. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, so the hotel business in the early nineties was in crisis. You couldn't get a loan. Many loans were in default. Uh, some hotel product was clear, was obsolete. You had all these new things being invented. The Residence Inn, the Embassy Suites, the Hampton Inn, the courtyard. So if you owned a Holiday Inn with a holo dome, right, that smelled like chlorine and the new, you know, Wyndham, I mean a Marriott, you know, residents in open across the street, you're a toast. So what that industry did during that time period to facilitate capital formation is it said, we're gonna go radical transparency, okay? We're all gonna, and this was still Marriott and then Steve Baum back at Hilton were the two that said, I don't care anymore about what I think my proprietary room night informa. I just don't care cuz I cannot get a loan and I, my lenders are defaulting me and I have, I'm, I'm gonna just send in every night, every room, every rate by whatever we think the right information to a third party, which happened to be sdr t r
Speaker 1:Yeah. The star just created the star report ultimately.
Speaker 2:Right. Okay. Genius in hindsight, because the hospitality business is a highly cyclical business tied to the, you know, the, the economic cycle. It should trade like a cyclical industrial, it, you know, six times cash flow. It doesn't trades like real estate. And uh, that creates huge multiples relative to something that's just particularly tied to discipline because it's, I, in my view, because it's a radically transparent industry, it's time for that happen in our industry. And we have a, we have Nmap vision, we have Nick, we have all the, to be able to do that. And now we're facing a credit crisis on top of Covid on top, you know, all of the challenges that we've just worked our way through. Now we have a credit crisis. And so this is the time to be, I believe, to be radically transparent and that'll help us get through this faster and be better as an industry as credit is formation is resolved.
Speaker 1:Right. So I agree there, there needs to be some behavioral changes of, of, uh, operators and others and investors and uh, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Everybody
Speaker 1:To, to be able to be more transparent on, on data, such as our favorite, um, common is about chart of accounts, but<laugh>,
Speaker 2:I'm, I'm a fan of a standard chart of account, but we're gonna lick that by the end of this year, by the way. So we're gonna do that.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, um, I wanna go back to your comments again about your true statements and your false statements. So did you go bungee jumping with your wife on your honeymoon?
Speaker 2:Heck, no. I am so scared of fights, Beth. There is no way anyone would get me on a bridge or whatever and have me jump up while my wife did try. And I said, you're outta your mind dear. There's no way I'm doing that.
Speaker 1:Even in those new days of marriage, huh? She couldn't
Speaker 2:Get to do. No, I you would think I would be foolish. I know. I'm too scared of heights,<laugh>. There's, there's no way I'd do
Speaker 1:That. All right. So what did you do with sheep related to, uh, Rupert Murdoch?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, so I, uh, I embarked on a letter writing campaign when I was 12 to Rupert Murdoch. I lived in London at the time mm-hmm.<affirmative>, and I was get fascinated by him. And so I wrote him a letter like twice a year and I said, I wanna work for you, I wanna work for you. I want to come to Australia, love Australia. So in my, in between my sophomore and junior year in college, he wrote me a letter and said, get your, I mean, he, like, it was like three sentences, if you can show up in Sydney, Australia on this date, you have a job.
Speaker 1:Oh,
Speaker 2:Signed Rupert. Oh, okay. So I got my to Sydney, excuse my French, and um, I ended up working on his sheep station called Ock in New South Wales for two months. Really. And then I went to work for his newspaper. I worked at the Brisbane Sun and I worked for the, uh, Sydney paper. Um, and yeah, one of the cool other cool things I, yeah, I heard of sheep, I had a motorcycle and I had a sheep dog and all that cool stuff. Oh, and the other cool thing was he let me fly on the cargo plane that delivered the newspapers, you know, newspapers are printed like around midnight, one o'clock. So in Australia's a big country, right? It's the size of the continental United States and there's no people in it. So papers get flown all over the place. So I would sit in the jump seat and land at some cargo airport at four in the morning and then, you know, wow. Like, figure out how to get around<laugh>, what a way to see the country. The country. Yeah. It was a great experience.
Speaker 1:Wow, that sounds fantastic. Okay, so in wrapping up, is there anything else you'd like to share with our audience about yourself, your career, senior housing, uh, considerations going forward?
Speaker 2:I would just like to close with, I, I think we're all very fortunate to work in an industry where you can give back to our nation's elders at the same time as have a rewarding career and build success for yourself. And, uh, I think it's a great, also make, make money. I mean, it's a, it's an industry that has proven over time that you can make great returns if you do it prudently. So I think we have a hopeful, um, opportunity in front of us, um, to do well and to do good.
Speaker 1:That's great. Thanks so much for your time, Kurt. And again, thank you for all you do for the industry and for Nick and, uh, just broadly the industry. So thank you.
Speaker 2:No, thank, thank you, Beth. You're the best example<laugh> that anybody could be following. So that's the best takeaway people should have is follow Beth Mace example,
Speaker 1:<laugh>. Oh, you're making me blush. All right, thanks very much. All right. Bye now.